User talk:Longweird/Guide

Feedback

This is as much feedback for Lefinch as it is for Longweird. In fact, I mostly consider this feedback to the latter, because he explicitly mentioned watching the talk pages. I want to offer my thoughts on the page's content, prose, and the fact that a user page is linked in main space. Then I'll talk about why I think moving it to user space was still a good idea.

Regarding the guide's advice, I'm not sure there is enough to warrant its own page. It seems like it would be simple to include these tips on Rancher. Hosting multiple guides of similar scope can also lead to issues. For example, if the method for obtaining one chicken changes, and one guide is updated while the other is not, that could really confuse people, because there are multiple sources telling them different things about the same subject. (Different scopes are fine. Medical Director for example has different priorities than Doctoring.) This was what happened with Pathology for Dummies and Pathology Research (old), back when it was called just Pathology Research.

As for the writing, I found the "mmm"-ing confusing at first, because I did not realize Blanco is supposed to be a cow. This does not necessarily mean it needs to go to the chopping block; it's just something to consider. On a positive note, I do appreciate that the writing gimmick is not so intrusive that it hampers understanding. The prose itself is decent and flows relatively well. (There wasn't a sentence where I went, "That's a weird way to describe that.")

I noticed this was linked on the Rancher page. Places like Wikipedia advise against the practice of linking to user pages in main space (see Wikipedia:Linking dos and don'ts for example), because user pages are intended as places where people can describe themselves or include small tidbits they find useful, rather than hosting full wiki guides. I know Paperwork does this, but I also consider that badly made, because this basically means there are five different places for people to find templates. I would much prefer if all these users' templates were on one page for convenience. I would like to consolidate them in the future, but it looks like a lot of work, I have much on my plate, and that task is on the lower end of my priority list.

The train has already reached its station, but I still think moving this to user space was a good idea. A guide with a specific name attached is generally a bad fit for wikis, as the very nature of wikis works against attributing a single author. People are free to edit pages at will, and they are often trimmed, expanded, changed, etc. At some point, the changes often become substantial enough that you can't really consider the namesake the main author. (This was basically what happened to Beesmark's Goon Guide to Robust Security.) Because pages typically have multiple contributors, it also doesn't make sense to use first-person perspective (like "I think..." or "in my experience..."). User pages don't have to deal with this, so it's okay that this has the first-person POV and "Blehblar Blanco's Guide to Ranching" attribution.

Studenterhue (talk) 08:59, 25 February 2025 (GMT)

Appreciate the feedback! I'll talk with Longweird and see what options they'd like to consider vis style changes or other ways to promote it and take the link off Ranching for now. However, There's a bit of a catch-22 situation on asking for ranching tips but no obvious avenues of easy access to them, but that might be a forum discussion.

Update: Longweird's happy with the current situation at the moment, so unless they feel like adding to it or something changes it'll stay as is. passing along and also giving thanks for the feedback.

User:Lefinch 11:03, 25 February 2025 (GMT) edited: 19:18

Thank you for being understanding. I hate to be a bearer of bad news or start things off on a perhaps negative note, but I don't have any ill intent, I'm just trying to make things consistent. If the idea to just have these tips somewhere accessible on the wiki, I can put my money where my mouth is and try to add them onto the main Rancher page. Alternatively, Longweird or you can try adding them. #imwiki is always around if Longweird needs help with editing. I know that a lot of new contributors find wiki stuff intimidating at first, but I think it's helpful to know that if you screw up, it's easy to undo it.

Studenterhue (talk) 08:19, 26 February 2025 (GMT)

Oh no not at all! From my perspective we genuinely appreciated the feedback, it's more a challenge to be met to find a good way to deal with getting rancher knowledge out. I appreciate the wiki needs to conform to some style, and I think Longweird was happy with this end result too (They've now learned how to edit the page a bit, and put in their character sprite to their guide on their own)

User:Lefinch 09:20, 26 February 2025 (GMT)

After rereading my previous responses and thinking about them some more, I realize I missed a few crucial things about user pages vs mainspace pages and may have caused some confusion. Consider this an addendum.

First, I do want to clarify that it's okay to use userpages for drafts of pages you'd like to make, like with your Kudzupeople page. That's fine. Repositories of useful gameplay tidbits or things that like are also cool.

Second, it's okay to share these user pages around in Discord and the like. The key thing is not to link them on the mainspace wiki pages, like Rancher and the like. User pages are, among other things, for including details about one's self or things for personal use, while mainspace pages are "official", or at least public-facing, content and represent the combined efforts of multiple people. Ergo linking user pages on mainspace makes them seem "official", when it's often not really so, or like the wiki is endorsing a specific, namedropped user and their opinion, which sorta runs against the idea of a collective voice.

I hope this helped!

Studenterhue (talk) 07:15, 28 February 2025 (GMT)